WHY international?

  • This has become our largest and most active forum because the physics GRE is just one aspect of getting accepted into a graduate physics program.
  • There are applications, personal statements, letters of recommendation, visiting schools, anxiety of waiting for acceptances, deciding between schools, finding out where others are going, etc.

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:14 pm

Ok,
Will I will give you the citation for the Ising problem, don kill me with your "GUNS"
I am just kiddin ok!

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twistor
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Post by twistor » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:35 pm

No, I never even considered the so-called "top-5" schools.

With their histories of discrimination and racism they can all go to hell.

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Post by cancelled20080417 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:25 pm

....
Last edited by cancelled20080417 on Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

astroste
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Post by astroste » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:31 pm

I am an international grad student now in US and was studying in Asia for undergraduate. I understand RG's complaint on Liberal Arts school. But I think there are much more disadvantage for international students studying in their own country but intended to come to US. GRE subject test seems to be the only one thing for them to stand out.

Letters of recommendation: The professors in our school are usually unknown to american scientists. I really cannot say we have good or bad letters..

Transcript: The philosophy of giving grades are totally different. Here in America, most teachers encourage students by giving good grades. But in Asia, you wont get A unless you are qualified to be the best in the class. We are all surprised to see why so many american students got 3.9, 4.0...

Research: I was in a three-year college, we just have no time to do anything real.

Personal statement: we don't have good english and thus can not express ourself very well...

So although it is pretty fine to complain about your own school, I cannot see any of the complaint related to being internationals, which is the topic you have set for this thread...

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:36 pm

my complain in a very plain words:

I go to a College in the States, but I am treated like an international student when it comes to admissions!!!
SO the title: Why international!!

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twistor
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Post by twistor » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:45 pm

It must have to do with citizenship, which is certainly not fair if you obtained your degree in the US.

As for international students being at a disadvantage, let's not forget that they make up 50% of the US population of physics graduate students....

vicente
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Post by vicente » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:49 pm

RG, blame the National Science Foundation for you being considered international. No matter how many years you've stayed in the U.S., as long as you aren't a permanent resident or citizen, they're not going to give you money.

But to most graduate depts' point of view, you are only an international student in terms of securing federal funding! Since you have a U.S. degree, they have some idea of the quality of your education. So you have an advantage over your friends back in your home country.

Let's see:

You have good research experience, good grades, excellent research experience and excellent recommendations from well-known professors. But you only have a "good" GRE score and not an excellent one. You also have a U.S. education.

Your friends have good research experience, not so good grades, good research experience but their recommendations are from professors that aren't that well-known. They have excellent GRE scores but no one's heard of the schools they go to.

Who do you actually think has a better chance of getting into the top-5 schools?

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Post by cancelled20080417 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:52 pm

vincente,
I am looking for an ans to that Q myself!
I have no clue!

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twistor
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Post by twistor » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:58 pm

Apply and let us know where you get in. If Harvard takes you, then we'll all know :)

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grae313
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Post by grae313 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:58 pm

I agree with you, vicente. I think in RG's case, the "international" label is pretty much about funding and funding only. In deciding how qualified he is, they are going to compare him to students from a similar background, and those are US students. RG, perhaps you aren't a "shoe-in" at MIT, but I think you've got an excellent chance.

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twistor
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Post by twistor » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:02 am

Incidentally, I'll be including the posts I've contributed to this forum on my application as "Volunteer work in physics education."....

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grae313
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Post by grae313 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:02 am

lol

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:06 am

Twistor,
I am also going to do that after all my argument with Phoenix today!
I have no idea why the discussion took a different route today!

O my Cv, i will mention
"FIGHT of THe PHOENIX"
Will this look good?
:lol:

Under the research experience, I am also planning to include:
Rigorous derivation of the meaning of Garden's post
and things like that!
:lol:

(Coz I have spent quite a bit of my time on this forum, esp today for all stupid reason)

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:22 am

Actually I am also planning to send rejection letters to top 5 schools, after they send me a rejection letter!
DOn u guys think we should all do this!
Twistor I have your post saved for this purpose!!

I am really enjoying this admission process! I wish I could have done much better in the GRE, then I would enjoy more!

:(

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:29 am

:o
Last edited by cancelled20080417 on Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:46 am

I jsut found out that Phoenix is a female student!
I think I shud not have come about non polite. i thought I was talking to a guy!
sorry about that!
I am pulling out few of my posts!
sorry about that!

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grae313
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Post by grae313 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:51 am

I saw that post, and I actually felt a bit sorry for him

He came on here saying, "I got a 960 and I'm in high school and I'm so mad it wasn't a 990. Do you think I still have a chance to get into MIT?"

He was so obviously desperate for attention it just made me sad, and a bit disgusted. The people who have my respect are the people you meet that are humble and helpful, and it's only after you've known them for a long time and someone else tells you he aced so-and-so test and has an IQ of whatever that you realize they are a genius.

People who are smart, and know they are smart, but are secure enough with themselves that they don't feel the need to constantly point it out to other people--that's who I respect. I'm still working on being better at this myself.

There was really absolutely no point to his post but to say, "Look at me! I'm smarter than all of you! But I'm insecure and I want you guys to be amazed and tell me how awesome I am pllleeeeeeaasee!" :roll: :roll:

100 years from now, we'll all be dead, he might have a Nobel prize, but I'll have truly lived.
Last edited by grae313 on Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:54 am

oh was he!
what the heck! was he from high school/ was that true!


I TOTALLY AGREE WITH U, Grae!

jwc914
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Post by jwc914 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:09 am

(hey RG, i do feel your frustration of having to deal with all these required courses that have nothing to do with physics. i did my undergrad at a small school that didnt even offer physics major...so i had to put up with a lot of crap to fulfill all the required coursework while trying to learn physics...i definitely had a lot to catch up during the beginning of grad school but the things get evened out pretty quickly.)

but i think you might eventually appreciate your 'broader' education once you start your graduate studies. after all this crazy, stressful admission process....(it will pass SOON and things will turn out fine for most of the people...i think you've got very a good chance with the background you mentioned)...right now you might feel stressed whenever you reflect upon your liberal arts background but eventually i think it will help you to get far.

i've done 1.5 years of grad studies and i realize how important those 'soft skills' are to be a good scientist. of course the scietific ability and the quality of the work are more important. (that's actually basic i think...) but almost all the powerful and successful profs i see in grad school are VERY good at communicating their work and needs. they know who to talk to and they know how to get funding. they are mostly well cultured too. sure, there also are many profs/scientists who just focus on their work and don't bother with networking and communicating much...and i guess they DO get recognition and funding because of their amazing work but i bet they could do SO much better if they had some soft skill too.
but they are rare cases i think...most of successful profs i've seen are very well-rounded. they have capability to do awesome research and they also know how to get people to give them money so that they can carry out those projects...
for example, this professor told some of us that we would have to know the person in charge to get a DARPA funding. unlike NSF funding that puts the proposal to review process by several referees, DARPA funding pretty much gets determined by the manager so you better know that person and be able to convince him/her why s/he should decide to give you funding instead of ten other good research groups.

so i guess if we are in scientific field to get a Nobel prize (and if we're genius and lucky enough), then we might not have to bother with soft skills much (but i could be wrong...who knows what kind of politics there are for Nobel prize decisions..), but most of us are scientists in training who are trying to make a career. most of us will be scientists who are trying to make a living and, to do decent, we would definitely need those soft skills. (not to entertain or please people but to get what we need for our projects to keep on going)

so i guess my point is that your liberal arts background may put you in disadvantage during admission process but once you start graduate studies you might actually appreciate it! (while all these international students are trying so hard to pick up some culture....well, and of course there are amazingly well cultured international students too. but i agree that most of international students just labored their undergraduate years away learning so much physics. which is good for them i guess)
well, just my two cents

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twistor
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Post by twistor » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:09 pm

He came on here saying, "I got a 960 and I'm in high school and I'm so mad it wasn't a 990. Do you think I still have a chance to get into MIT?"
Probably just someone craving attention. I don't see how a high-schooler can get a 960 on the physics GRE. Even with diligent self-study it would still take a long time to reach the level of someone with a bachelor's degree. Not only would he have had to learned the physics, but also the math such as differential equations.

Or maybe he just memorized Hamilton's equations without understanding their origin. It's certainly possible to do with little understanding of the actual physics that goes into them, and demonstrates once again why I think the subject test is nonsense.

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:15 pm

jwc914,
That makes sense!
Thanks.

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:18 pm

I thought he/she was truly from "high school"!
Last edited by cancelled20080417 on Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vicente
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Post by vicente » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:29 pm

Watch out, how do you know that that person wasn't a girl :wink:

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:27 pm

vicente,
hahaha, u got me,
I'll take that out!

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twistor
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Post by twistor » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:59 pm

Should I have used the pronoun 'ze'?

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:16 pm

wat does that mean!
I din get it! :?:

vicente
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Post by vicente » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:27 pm

i was actually making fun of how some people feel that they have to treat someone completely different when they find out that they are female.

cancelled20080417
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Post by cancelled20080417 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:33 pm

I don think it is about "treating diff"!!

Here is an example!

Do you say to ur female fren: I am gonna "KICK" UR ass!
If I say that to my girlfren or her frens( if the girl pisses me off), she IS gonna kick my ass, instead!

but to a male fren: i would not just say but go and kick his ass!

Is this treating different or something else!



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