Will it be a good idea to apply again?

[midwestphysics]

I think the common practice is that the person who actually writes the paper is the first author (if there was only 1 person writing the paper). If a student knows enough about their project to write the paper (with editing and guidance from the advisor), then clearly the student has contributed enough to be the first author as well.

To an extent I agree, but my feelings are that the authorship rank goes by contribution level. Who is responsible for the majority of the actual scientific content of the paper. I've been on projects where I knew everything that was going on inside and out. However, whether it was my responsibility to physically write the paper or not I don't think that would entitle me to a first authorship unless the majority of what was in it I was directly responsible for having formulated. Of course that does depend on if it's in a group capacity. Also I think that's a theory issue, in experiment I think your work can be a little more easily quantified. Not knocking anything, but in theory when you can going back and forth with ideas and you smooth one out and sometimes you're left wondering who was more responsible for that idea, and then it's hard to rank authors, at least that my personal experience.

[admissionprof]

I think the common practice is that the person who actually writes the paper is the first author (if there was only 1 person writing the paper). If a student knows enough about their project to write the paper (with editing and guidance from the advisor), then clearly the student has contributed enough to be the first author as well.

To an extent I agree, but my feelings are that the authorship rank goes by contribution level. Who is responsible for the majority of the actual scientific content of the paper.

In many subfields (especially theoretical, but also in big collaborations), the author list is always alphabetical. That's an easy way to avoid authorship fights. Look at the listing of papers from big HE experimental collaborations - for example, most CDF publications are T. Aaltonen et al.

[midwestphysics]

In many subfields (especially theoretical, but also in big collaborations), the author list is always alphabetical. That's an easy way to avoid authorship fights. Look at the listing of papers from big HE experimental collaborations - for example, most CDF publications are T. Aaltonen et al.

Oh absolutely, but in those cases where you sit in authorship order is completely understood so it doesn't matter if your listed first or last. I'm strictly talking about papers that don't go alphabetically.

[blighter]

It's a bit mean to call someone hypocrite just because they didn't write you excellent letters.
They might just honestly think that you're not as bright as you believe you are...
And isn't it more or less a common practice to put their students as first author?

Did you find someone to check your grammar and writing style in your SOP?
That might also be why the adcom didn't have a positive impression on your SOP.

Okay, may be that is a strong word, but I have worked really hard for 4 years, and if his letter is the reason that I got rejected everywhere, I do believe I have the right to complain. And, of course I have my SOP checked, so I don't really believe that my SOP could ruin everything for me.

Hey, why not mail the SOP you sent to schools to admissionprof? I think he could give you a closure on how good it is and make you feel less guilty about blaming your letter writers. That is, if admissionprof is willing to read your SOP.

I believe grammatical errors and unprofessional writing style aren't the only things that can make an SOP bad.

[midwestphysics]

Hey, why not mail the SOP you sent to schools to admissionprof? I think he could give you a closure on how good it is and make you feel less guilty about blaming your letter writers. That is, if admissionprof is willing to read your SOP.

I believe grammatical errors and unprofessional writing style aren't the only things that can make an SOP bad.

I don't think that works without access to the letters, since how they ties into each other is crucial.

[admissionprof]

It's a bit mean to call someone hypocrite just because they didn't write you excellent letters.
They might just honestly think that you're not as bright as you believe you are...
And isn't it more or less a common practice to put their students as first author?

Did you find someone to check your grammar and writing style in your SOP?
That might also be why the adcom didn't have a positive impression on your SOP.

Okay, may be that is a strong word, but I have worked really hard for 4 years, and if his letter is the reason that I got rejected everywhere, I do believe I have the right to complain. And, of course I have my SOP checked, so I don't really believe that my SOP could ruin everything for me.

Hey, why not mail the SOP you sent to schools to admissionprof? I think he could give you a closure on how good it is and make you feel less guilty about blaming your letter writers. That is, if admissionprof is willing to read your SOP.

I believe grammatical errors and unprofessional writing style aren't the only things that can make an SOP bad.

Under these circumstances, I'd be happy to read it and comment (but not for everyone at physicsgre.com, of course). But who knows--maybe hyc34 forgot to change the institution (name)--that happens, and it wouldn't show up in what hyc sends me. Unless they are really bad, grammatical errors aren't a huge deal (at least to me).

Maybe hyc34 made the same possible mistake that blighter may have made in the above post -- assume someone is male when there is probably no evidence that they are. That might affect one place, of course, but not several....

[giga17]

Well if it's any consolation to anyone out there who is in a similar situation, this is my second year applying to grad schools. I decided to stay back another year to just do research, got much better letters, got a better PGRE score for the schools I want, and applied again. I did not shy away from the fact that it was my second year applying, but faced it head on in my application and clearly showed the differences between my first and second application cycles. I got into some of my dream schools, so I hope it's an encouragement to some of you out there. I think the most important thing is not to be stuck with a "what if" 5 years later down the road.

[Bozostein]

Well if it's any consolation to anyone out there who is in a similar situation, this is my second year applying to grad schools. I decided to stay back another year to just do research, got much better letters, got a better PGRE score for the schools I want, and applied again. I did not shy away from the fact that it was my second year applying, but faced it head on in my application and clearly showed the differences between my first and second application cycles. I got into some of my dream schools, so I hope it's an encouragement to some of you out there. I think the most important thing is not to be stuck with a "what if" 5 years later down the road.

yeah i mean i applied to 4 schools and honestly i didn't expect to get into any but i got lucky, the main thing is that if this is what you want to do with your life eventually you are going to get in somewhere if you keep applying. That said there are probably some unique cases where people who truly are not qualified apply and constantly get rejected, it's obvious you are not one of those so just apply again next year

and btw, who gives a crap if you did your undergrad at UIUC??? That is a great school just go there and stop complaining like a little girl about not getting to go to another school, you should be thankful, and just go there. full stop. end of story.,

[blighter]

Under these circumstances, I'd be happy to read it and comment (but not for everyone at physicsgre.com, of course). But who knows--maybe hyc34 forgot to change the institution (name)--that happens, and it wouldn't show up in what hyc sends me. Unless they are really bad, grammatical errors aren't a huge deal (at least to me).

Maybe hyc34 made the same possible mistake that blighter may have made in the above post -- assume someone is male when there is probably no evidence that they are. That might affect one place, of course, but not several....

Hah! I've made a huge mistake!

[asdfuogh]

Under these circumstances, I'd be happy to read it and comment (but not for everyone at physicsgre.com, of course). But who knows--maybe hyc34 forgot to change the institution (name)--that happens, and it wouldn't show up in what hyc sends me. Unless they are really bad, grammatical errors aren't a huge deal (at least to me).

Maybe hyc34 made the same possible mistake that blighter may have made in the above post -- assume someone is male when there is probably no evidence that they are. That might affect one place, of course, but not several....

Hah! I've made a huge mistake!

Upvote for arrested development reference..