Still Waiting 2009.... Share your ambivalence!

cato88 · Post by **cato88** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:19 pm

rohit wrote: I'm not sure why this issue came up here , but here's an addendum - the joint entrance examination is for entrance to engineering courses at IITs. There are some PGRE takers in India who who have not prepared for/ not taken these exams. Also , it is almost always the case that engg. students in India are better equipped to take such an exam, 'coz students with a BSc+MSc (3+2 years) dont usually have to go through such competitive tests. Although even they would find the PGRE easier than most Westerners do.

I could believe the JEE argument but it sounds like your using a India is smarter than all the western countries argument.

shetanak13 · Post by **shetanak13** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:33 pm

guess I'll add my two cents... LET THE WAITING END!
I think I'll feel better once I hear just one response, even rejection... just so I know that I'm not a forgotten soul. The letters are starting up again, though, so mayhaps I'll raise my hopes again.

If this round of apps doesn't work out for moi, I think I'll go for a masters at a state school. Anybody else thinking of doing this?
WHO'S WITH ME?!

coreycwgriffin · Post by **coreycwgriffin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:00 am

shetanak13 wrote:I think I'll feel better once I hear just one response, even rejection...

That's what I thought before today.

shetanak13 wrote: If this round of apps doesn't work out for moi, I think I'll go for a masters at a state school. Anybody else thinking of doing this?
WHO'S WITH ME?!

Can't happen for me. Can't afford it. I'll be stuck in some *** job for at least a year when I can try again.

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:37 am

Ok...
I think some clarification is required
Rohit, I really dont know where you study, but surely you MUST know that some IIT's have a 5 year MSc Integrated program?

I mean, I thought thats what I was enrolled in

. And let me also assure you that I had to go through the JEE examination. I didnt get that good a rank, but I did get through

And, almost all institutions that have a BSc+MSc program (IIT's , cmi. IISER) have a rigorous examination procedure preceding admission
So I really dont see where you get the argument that people in BSc+MSc programs GENERALLY havent gone through a gruelling admission test

, In fact, if anything , the reverse can be said, and with good reason too. I mean, essentially when you give admission to a kid fresh out of school into a BSc+MSc program, you would want to ensure that that fellow has enough commitment to last 5 years in what Ive seen is a pretty hectic program, and as you might know, performance in competetive examinations is always a better indicator of that than board results, at least in India

actually, I do know where you are coming from. I'll clarify the matter for Non-Indians. You see, in India people have this strange notion that the best students get into engineering. Well, at least most people. But Rohit, you'll be surprised that there exist isolated pockets in India where this notion has no currency. My department gets its fair shair of IMO and IPHO medallists, and top rankers in JEE (one of my seniors had an All India rank of 3, out of 200,000

). There are places where people enroll in BSc+MSC programs in sciences not because they couldnt get through any other department, but merely because they wanted to major in Science.

And yeah. Dont even think for one second that engineering students are better equipped to take these examinations than us. Some of them do appear, and trust me, they dont do too well

so yeah, i am inclined to agree with cato that you are using your indians are smarter than all western countries argument

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:49 am

And yeah. regarding how this topic came up, it was really a couple of factors.
The fact that some users on this forum seem to think that Indians have higher pgre scores on an average because indians cheat, my being trapped in a frustration well when i raised the topic (;)) , and my having a rather good memory that allows me to use arbitrary stuff that might have offended me at a previous date to rant at a later date when i need to rant about something to keep the frustration monkey from eating my brain. For further clarification, especially regarding Mr.f.monkey, read my previous posts

rohit · Post by **rohit** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:26 am

OK .. more clarifications ..

First, to Sandman, the "BSc+MSc" was intended to inform our Western friends of the route Physics Majors on India need to take to get to US grad schools. The majority of us (me included) did their BSc and MSc at different places.
Second, i never said Engg. gets the better students. I just said they are better prepared for such exams.
Lastly, my goodness, this is the 2nd forum i'm bein accused of sayin "Indians are smarter"

NO I AM NOT

I only said even the MSc students have to go thru SOME or the other competitive exam at some time ,and , in general, have a more rigorous science curriculum then the US.

Man, i'll need to be careful once i get there!

cato88 · Post by **cato88** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:48 am

rohit wrote: Lastly, my goodness, this is the 2nd forum i'm bein accused of sayin "Indians are smarter"

You really should work on your phrasing if that is not what you meant because if it has happened this many times it has more to do with your wording than the readers of your posts.

Possible example:

rohit wrote: I only said even the MSc students have to go thru SOME or the other competitive exam at some time ,and , in general, have a more rigorous science curriculum then the US.

This is either an extremely unfair trivial statement comparing US Bachelors students against Indian Master students
or US Masters students have a less rigorous curriculum than Indian Masters students which begs the question why
pursue US studies if the curriculum is that much better?

xudis149 · Post by **xudis149** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:08 am

We in India have lot of competitive exams kept at many stages during one's academic progress. Many institutes and universities have their own examinations. All this may give us an edge in giving exams. But I am pretty sure this doesn't give us any edge if one is to measure our capability to do independent research nor does it make us any smarter.

In fact, on the whole we lag behind a lot in pure research. What happens in many institutes in the name of research is a joke. Of course there are great places like TIFR, IIT, IISc .. so on. But in most places it is sad. I know for sure cause I have been to such places.

rohit · Post by **rohit** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:44 am

cato88 wrote:
rohit wrote: Lastly, my goodness, this is the 2nd forum i'm bein accused of sayin "Indians are smarter"
You really should work on your phrasing if that is not what you meant because if it has happened this many times it has more to do with your wording than the readers of your posts.

Possible example:
rohit wrote: I only said even the MSc students have to go thru SOME or the other competitive exam at some time ,and , in general, have a more rigorous science curriculum then the US.
This is either an extremely unfair trivial statement comparing US Bachelors students against Indian Master students
or US Masters students have a less rigorous curriculum than Indian Masters students which begs the question why
pursue US studies if the curriculum is that much better?

*sigh*
1. Indian BSc is 3 years. MSc is 2 years. So we have had one more year than you guys. Its NOT unfair, coz we need at least a 100 more in the PGRE than you.(of course that also has to do with more international applicants). Besides, it is US univs that dont accept Indian BSc students to grad school and look for Masters students. They clearly believe that our MSc is equivalent to your BSc.

2. Doing well in these tests is a hardly an indicator of one's ability to do research.

3. Indian undergrad+MSc curriculum may be more rigorous, but by the end of the 1st 2
years at a US grad school, its nicely balanced out.

4. Rigor isnt the only thing that matters. Most Indian undergrad Physics exams emphasize derivations as opposed to problems. One is supposed to memorize things like the Laplacian in spherical polar coordinates. There are practically no opportunities to do research. I am only saying we are better prepared for such tests, (most of us; not me

) Not that we have better education.

5. My phrasing rocks.

cato88 · Post by **cato88** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:58 am

rohit wrote: Besides, it is US univs that dont accept Indian BSc students to grad school and look for Masters students. They clearly believe that our MSc is equivalent to your BSc.

I think this is more due to the competitiveness of the process than anyone believing MSc in India is equal to US BSc. . The admission seem to use internationals to put big numbers on their avg PGRE. I think it is probably just not as common for BSc. to score 990 and apply to US graduate schools perhaps due to self-selection caused by the need to work on testing or the prevalence of indian masters students applying to the same positions.
If there was as large a ratio of MSc to BSc for US applicants im sure a MSc would seem to be required to compete.

rohit · Post by **rohit** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:11 am

cato88 wrote:
rohit wrote: Besides, it is US univs that dont accept Indian BSc students to grad school and look for Masters students. They clearly believe that our MSc is equivalent to your BSc.
I think this is more due to the competitiveness of the process than anyone believing MSc in India is equal to US BSc. . The admission seem to use internationals to put big numbers on their avg PGRE. I think it is probably just not as common for BSc. to score 990 and apply to US graduate schools perhaps due to self-selection caused by the need to work on testing or the prevalence of indian masters students applying to the same positions.
If there was as large a ratio of MSc to BSc for US applicants im sure a MSc would seem to be required to compete.

Trust me, there would be a whole lot of BSc students in India scoring near perfect if US schools accepted Indians without a MSc. The skills required for the PGRE are attained by then. But why are you putting so much stress on the PGRE? As i said earlier, Indian undergrad education leaves much to be desired and even i believe that most BSc students in India would not be well prepared for grad school in the US. Of course some MSc students might be over-prepared but then that would be the case with some BS students from the US too.

happymonkey · Post by **happymonkey** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:59 am

crzy thread jacking, that's what the above last dozen messages or so are

, peace - out

naseermk · Post by **naseermk** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:44 pm

After getting a rejection notice from Minnesota (yesterday), I got an email from the DGS saying that it was a mistake

The DGS needs more time to consider my appl. Any such experiences so far?

bosem · Post by **bosem** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:53 pm

naseermk wrote:After getting a rejection notice from Minnesota (yesterday), I got an email from the DGS saying that it was a mistake

The DGS needs more time to consider my appl. Any such experiences so far?

No.. but that is a good news for you, however incompetent their admission committee may be. WTF man!!!... is the admission committee playing some sort of joke with us?

naseermk · Post by **naseermk** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:59 pm

[quote="bosem]No.. but that is a good news for you, however incompetent their admission committee may be. WTF man!!!... is the admission committee playing some sort of joke with us?[/quote]

It's confusing in the least. Some sort of response check???

nonick · Post by **nonick** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:59 pm

bosem wrote:
naseermk wrote:After getting a rejection notice from Minnesota (yesterday), I got an email from the DGS saying that it was a mistake

The DGS needs more time to consider my appl. Any such experiences so far?
No.. but that is a good news for you, however incompetent their admission committee may be. WTF man!!!... is the admission committee playing some sort of joke with us?

At least they didn't send an acceptance and then said it was a mistake.
A friend last year got a job offer, and couple of hours after that an email saying... oh we just noticed you are not an US citizen, we don't actually sponsor work visas any more, so we have to revoke our offer.

naseermk · Post by **naseermk** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:02 pm

nonick wrote: At least they didn't send an acceptance and then said it was a mistake.
A friend last year got a job offer, and couple of hours after that an email saying... oh we just noticed you are not an US citizen, we don't actually sponsor work visas any more, so we have to revoke our offer.

Trust me that has happened as well. Right after my high school, I got an offer from Univ. of Nottingham (UK) only to receive an email a while later saying that they were retracting the offer since I was under 18 at the time.

What happens to our rights?

Julius_Sumner_Miller · Post by **Julius_Sumner_Miller** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:35 pm

I really hope to get a rejection soon, just so I can have some closure. I got an email from UMass today, I eagerly tore it open only to discover it was a "conformation that your application has been received, we will update you on your appliaction status as soon as possible"

...... I sent my materials in over two months ago.

"Physics is my business"

happymonkey · Post by **happymonkey** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:24 pm

You lucky, lucky man getting a definitive statement from UMass. I haven't even got that yet.

Julius_Sumner_Miller wrote:I really hope to get a rejection soon, just so I can have some closure. I got an email from UMass today, I eagerly tore it open only to discover it was a "conformation that your application has been received, we will update you on your appliaction status as soon as possible" ...... I sent my materials in over two months ago.

"Physics is my business"

isobelojalvo · Post by **isobelojalvo** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:58 pm

Just had a phone interview with University of Minnesota. They said they'd inform me of their decision soon. I think it went well but you can never tell, can you?

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:59 pm

I'm keen to hear if anyone knows whenabouts Stanford and Berkeley are going to send notification to applied physics applicants (technically applied science and technology in Berkeley's case). It's not make-or-break--I've got two great offers (...not that they've given a specific price tag) that I may well take up even if they accept me--but I'm still on tenterhooks. Anyone have any ideas? Better, has anyone heard back from them?

evilclaw2321 · Post by **evilclaw2321** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:02 pm

isobelojalvo wrote:Just had a phone interview with University of Minnesota. They said they'd inform me of their decision soon. I think it went well but you can never tell, can you?

Just curious do you know the name of the person you spoke with?

Helio · Post by **Helio** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:06 pm

Yossarian wrote:I'm keen to hear if anyone knows whenabouts Stanford and Berkeley are going to send notification to applied physics applicants (technically applied science and technology in Berkeley's case). It's not make-or-break--I've got two great offers (...not that they've given a specific price tag) that I may well take up even if they accept me--but I'm still on tenterhooks. Anyone have any ideas? Better, has anyone heard back from them?

Stanford Applied usually some time next week, as it was last year. Berkeley i am guessing somewhere around that time too

isobelojalvo · Post by **isobelojalvo** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:15 pm

evilclaw2321 wrote:
isobelojalvo wrote:Just had a phone interview with University of Minnesota. They said they'd inform me of their decision soon. I think it went well but you can never tell, can you?
Just curious do you know the name of the person you spoke with?

I spoke with the Director of Graduate Studies, Yuichi.

naseermk · Post by **naseermk** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:42 pm

isobelojalvo wrote:
evilclaw2321 wrote:
isobelojalvo wrote:Just had a phone interview with University of Minnesota. They said they'd inform me of their decision soon. I think it went well but you can never tell, can you?
Just curious do you know the name of the person you spoke with?
I spoke with the Director of Graduate Studies, Yuichi.

Yuichi is a nice person. I met with him couple of weeks back.

coreycwgriffin · Post by **coreycwgriffin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:47 pm

naseermk wrote:
isobelojalvo wrote:
I spoke with the Director of Graduate Studies, Yuichi.
Yuichi is a nice person. I met with him couple of weeks back.

The rejection e-mail from him sure was emotionless, that's for sure.

naseermk · Post by **naseermk** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:50 pm

Always has to be...

coreycwgriffin · Post by **coreycwgriffin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:52 pm

naseermk wrote:Always has to be...

Even if it's a bulk e-mail to people with shitty grad school qualifications, at least throw in something about having "many qualified applicants" and that "it was a tough decision". I mean basically what I got was "No funding. No admittance. kthxbye."

naseermk · Post by **naseermk** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:55 pm

coreycwgriffin wrote:
naseermk wrote:Always has to be...
Even if it's a bulk e-mail to people with shitty grad school qualifications, at least throw in something about having "many qualified applicants" and that "it was a tough decision". I mean basically what I got was "No funding. No admittance. kthxbye."

Agree...

I got one from Cornell which sounded something of a 'tough decision' but it all comes down to getting in or not.

bosem · Post by **bosem** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:15 pm

naseermk wrote:
coreycwgriffin wrote:
naseermk wrote:Always has to be...
Even if it's a bulk e-mail to people with shitty grad school qualifications, at least throw in something about having "many qualified applicants" and that "it was a tough decision". I mean basically what I got was "No funding. No admittance. kthxbye."
Agree...

I got one from Cornell which sounded something of a 'tough decision' but it all comes down to getting in or not.

Yeah.. I would rather read one sentence rejection letter than a long fake empathetic one. I need admission not the empathy...

confused_p · Post by **confused_p** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:42 pm

deleted.

evilclaw2321 · Post by **evilclaw2321** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:31 pm

Another week no word

I'm getting so annoyed, just one school would satiate me.

PoincareSection · Post by **PoincareSection** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:21 pm

evilclaw2321 wrote:Another week no word
I'm getting so annoyed, just one school would satiate me.

same here

cato88 · Post by **cato88** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:37 pm

This week was pretty uneventful look at gradcafe.

PoincareSection · Post by **PoincareSection** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:18 pm

one more week, then I'm starting to look for jobs. blah.

happymonkey · Post by **happymonkey** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:01 am

I will never quit, I will never kill my dream, I don't care if I have to take large debts I will go to a good phys. grad. school and get my PhD.. Not getting into a PhD program is a small set back, and nothing else. Leaving that dream behind will kill me more than going into debt.

To all those who haven't gotten into the place your most interested in, or who like me haven't gotten accepted any where yet. I suggest you simply call the department. In many cases they will let you know where you stand. If you haven't heard a rejection notice you are most likely on a wait list. Find out where and that might, might put your mind at a bit more ease.

WhatCanYouDoFermi? · Post by **WhatCanYouDoFermi?** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:45 am

happymonkey wrote:Leaving that dream behind will kill me more than going into debt.

You are the least happy monkey I have ever known

evilclaw2321 · Post by **evilclaw2321** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:17 am

happymonkey wrote:I suggest you simply call the department. In many cases they will let you know where you stand. If you haven't heard a rejection notice you are most likely on a wait list.

I've thought of writing or calling to check on status but didnt know if that was considered bad or in poor taste, i've heard that just angers them, has anyone here actually done this, if so how do you word this email/call to not sound pushy/impatient.

happymonkey · Post by **happymonkey** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:32 am

WhatCanYouDoFermi? wrote:
happymonkey wrote:Leaving that dream behind will kill me more than going into debt.
You are the least happy monkey I have ever known

that was a good one - thanks. I'm happy but maybe not happy enough to be happy monkey anymore. I wonder if a moderator would be willing to change my nick to the not-so-happymonkey in any event as it appears my prospects are truly shrinking I've set upon the goal of > 950 pgre and letters from professors that have name recognition regardless of their capabilities or bust for next year. No matter how bad the economy is by then I'll at least be competitive enough to get into some where I think I belong, and it's time, I guess for this silly creature to get another MS this time specifically with a theoretical HEP thesis, at a < 50 school. I'm in it for the long haul. So I'll be back next year with an almost completed new degree and a happy pgre. Learn where you failed and try again. I'm not dead until I'm dead.

---

@evilclaw2321: I'm not sure we're in the same situation but I've gotten a mass of rejections lately. My tactic was basically to tell the Uni. this and ask what possibility there was for getting an MS from there institution to help me in the long run pursuing the objective of a PhD. This seemed to have the effect of them telling me where I stood with them. I probably shot mysef in the face but I can't stop being who I am. That is I'm assuming this strategy won't in most cases work for others, this is just my situation. I just want to know if I have a fighting chance of gaining entrance. If I don't then it's time to find another way to a PhD, as it appears it is for me.

anerac · Post by **anerac** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:31 am

evilclaw2321 wrote:
happymonkey wrote:I suggest you simply call the department. In many cases they will let you know where you stand. If you haven't heard a rejection notice you are most likely on a wait list.
I've thought of writing or calling to check on status but didnt know if that was considered bad or in poor taste, i've heard that just angers them, has anyone here actually done this, if so how do you word this email/call to not sound pushy/impatient.

I say do it. I was getting overly anxious so I emailed a few schools and asked if they were planning on having an open house and then I threw in a "oh by the way I was curious about my application status..." Most responses were polite and curiously enough I got an acceptance a few days later. The other school basically told me my app is on hold while they "peruse" the other files -- I'm taking that as a rejection/waitlist.

cato88 · Post by **cato88** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:32 pm

anerac wrote: The other school basically told me my app is on hold while they "peruse" the other files -- I'm taking that as a rejection/waitlist.

Thats funny like telling a girl were not quite dating until your done perusingsome of your other options.
Goes to show graduate programs have loss the ability to be polite.

Maxwells_Demon · Post by **Maxwells_Demon** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:46 am

I predict at least a couple notifications next week... (I haven't heard anything either)

Maxwell's Demon

clytze_pp · Post by **clytze_pp** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:27 pm

Maxwells_Demon wrote:I predict at least a couple notifications next week... (I haven't heard anything either)

Maxwell's Demon

Cannot agree any more!

babazula · Post by **babazula** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:43 pm

i e-mailed UCSB to ask my application status, and in response to my inquiry, i received the follwing note:

"You should find out within a month. "

Now what am i to understand by that? is this a rejection?

YF17A · Post by **YF17A** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:50 pm

What is taking Princeton and Stanford so long? Looks like most of last year's applicants had heard by this time.

isobelojalvo · Post by **isobelojalvo** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:53 pm

babazula wrote:i e-mailed UCSB to ask my application status, and in response to my inquiry, i received the follwing note:

"You should find out within a month. "

Now what am i to understand by that? is this a rejection?

My theory is that the first wave of official acceptances for UCSB will be sent out on Friday. Here is why:
1. A few people have been admitted but it seems they have been notified by contacts in the physics department, not by an official email. One person was told that they would be officially notified within the next week.
2. UCSB did not send out notifications until the Friday of the last week of February last year. Presumably it will be the same this year.

QED (or not...)

For better or for worse, I am already making plans to go to a bar on Friday...

trinitron · Post by **trinitron** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:04 pm

I was notified today by official email. No special contacts.

Helio · Post by **Helio** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:08 pm

YF17A wrote:What is taking Princeton and Stanford so long? Looks like most of last year's applicants had heard by this time.

Stanford should be friday or monday, as there email said bay march 1st.

evilclaw2321 · Post by **evilclaw2321** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:16 pm

So is it just me or have things slowed? Everyone keeps telling me wait till mid-late february, thats when things start happening. But From looking on here and other boards it seemed late january and early feb there was a ton of notifications, now things are just kind of trickling.

bryanwitha_y · Post by **bryanwitha_y** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 pm

evilclaw2321 wrote:...now things are just kind of trickling.

Agonizing, ain't it?

I'm this close to heaving a javelin made of paper clips, scotch tape, and rage through my office window.