School Rankings

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School Rankings

Post by astrobio » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:49 pm

I'm trying to figure out what sort of rankings different programs have. There are schools that I know are in the top few, based on reputation, like Caltech, Berkeley, etc... But the only rankings site I can find ( doesn't really seem to clarify what the absolute most objective rankings are for various graduate programs.

I would be interested in the U.S. news rankings, but I'm not sure they review astronomy/astrophysics programs? Anyone have any other sources?

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Post by artist » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:16 am

Obviously this is a subjective issue, but I found a list here:

This is for physics though, not astronomy or astrophysics.

Harvard University
Princeton University
Massachusetts Inst of Technology
University of California-Berkeley
California Institute Technology
Cornell University
University of Chicago
U of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Stanford University
Univ of California-Santa Barbara
University of Texas at Austin
Columbia University
Yale University
University of Washington
Univ of California-Los Angeles
Univ of California-San Diego
University of Pennsylvania
University of Maryland College Park
University of Michigan
Rutgers State Univ-New Brunswick
University of Wisconsin-Madison
State U of New York-Stony Brook
University of Minnesota
Ohio State University
University of Rochester a
Brown University
University of Rochester
Carnegie Mellon University
Johns Hopkins University
Purdue University
Michigan State University
University of California-Irvine
Indiana University
CUNY - Grad Sch & Univ Center
University of Florida
Northwestern University
University of Colorado
Boston University
University of Pittsburgh
Duke University
Florida State University
Rice University
Brandeis University
University of Arizona
University of Virginia
Texas A&M University
Univ of California-Santa Cruz
Iowa State University
University of Southern California
North Carolina State University
Washington University
New York University
U of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
Pennsylvania State University
University of Notre Dame
Syracuse University
Vanderbilt University
University of Utah
University of Oregon
University of Houston
Georgia Institute of Technology
College of William & Mary
U of Massachusetts at Amherst
Case Western Reserve Univ
Northeastern University
University of California-Davis
Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst
Univ of California-Riverside
Arizona State University
Virginia Polytech Inst & State U
University of Tennessee-Knoxville
University of Iowa
University of Delaware
University of Georgia
Oregon State University
Tufts University
Kent State University
Louisiana State U & A&M College
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Drexel University
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Dartmouth College
Ohio University
University of South Carolina
State Univ of New York-Albany
Illinois Institute of Technology
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of Alaska
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Kentucky
University of Texas at Dallas
University of Kansas
Temple University
University of Oklahoma
University of New Hampshire
University of Akron
Lehigh University
University of Missouri-Columbia
Catholic University of America
University of Connecticut
Kansas State University
University of Cincinnati
Colorado State University
University of North Texas
Montana State University
Colorado School of Mines
State Univ of New York-Buffalo
Stevens Inst of Technology
Brigham Young University
New Mexico State University
University of Maine
Clarkson University
University of Alabama-Huntsville
Tulane University
Univ of Arkansas-Fayetteville
University of Texas at Arlington
Washington State University
Texas Tech University
University of Alabama
Oklahoma State University
University of Miami
American University
University of Missouri-Rolla
University of Mass-Lowell
Polytechnic University
University of Alabama-Birmingham
Auburn University
University of Rhode Island
Clark University
Boston College
Old Dominion University
University of Denver
Oakland University
Howard University
New Mexico Inst of Mining & Tech
Bryn Mawr College
Worcester Polytechnic Inst
Michigan Technological University
George Washington University
University of Mississippi
University of Nevada, Reno
Oregon Graduate Inst Sci & Tech
Univ of Puerto Rico-Rio Piedras
Baylor University
Texas Christian University
Florida Institute of Technology

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Post by somebody » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:43 am

i would have thought hopkins would be higher

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Post by jormiga » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:43 am

Wanna Be Physicist
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Post by Wanna Be Physicist » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:12 am

Texas is Ranked Really High! Holly ***. I had No Idea!

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Post by Daharoni » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:10 am

Those rankings are based only off the academic quality of professors (Not publications or citations). If you go to and rank physics programs based only on "scholarly quality of program faculty" you will get the same rankings. Along with this, the data is from 1993... I don't know about you but I would consider the ranking out of data.

They are based off the NRC data from 1993. It says that new NRC data is scheduled to be released at the end of this year (No help to you or me).

I have spend a long time looking for up to date rankings but it doesn't seem like there are any.

It might be helpful for people to post what rank they think schools are at (in this thread).

I would says top 5 are (In no order):

I would think the next 10 include (In no order):
UCSB (Close to the top 5)
U of Wash

I would like to know what others think about my rankings.

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Post by phun » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:20 am

Here's my personal list of good schools. (edited)

Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Princeton, Caltech

Cornell, Stanford, Chicago, UIUC, UCSB

UCLA, UCSD, Texas, Washington, Yale, Columbia, UPenn, Maryland, Michigan, Wisconsin, Stony Brook, OSU, John Hopkins, Rutgers
Last edited by phun on Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by artist » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:01 pm

I would have put all of those schools in the first tier. Your method would have like 50+ tiers.

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Post by phun » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:33 pm

yeah you are right. I didn't mean it to be an exhustive list. All of those are the "top" schools in my mind. I just wanted to break them down a bit further. sorry if I suggested anything outrageous.

Alright, I decided to edit my previous post. Hopefully it's more reasonable now.

Also the above three levels are based on the impression of the overall departmental prestige. I'm sure things would be different in the specialized fields.

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Post by quizivex » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:38 pm

Hey, could someone tell us what impact your undergrad school's ranking has on your applications?

For example, for which of the following reasons is a higher ranked school better?

1) A person at a higer ranked school probably was taught more material and taught it more rigorously than someone at a lower school?
2) Your grades mean more because there was better competition?
3) Since you got into the higher school you must have been good to begin with?

I ask this because I'm not sure what determines a school's rank, and some of the factors might not be relevant to the merits of a student from a particular school. For instance, if a school gets its reputation from the research accomplishments of its faculty then that's not really relevant in evaluating the students from that school. But if the rank comes from the success of the undergrads coming out of a certain school, and a formal evaluation of its program, then it's probably more important.

Kindof a vague question, I don't know how to word it better, sorry haha.

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Post by braindrain » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:17 pm

I think there might be something else to consider regarding rankings. There seems to be a few universities and research environments that are producing a disproportionately high number of Nobel Prizes. It's as if there are clusters of Nobel Prizes at certain schools and labs. And then the people that do get Nobel Prizes came from certain places for their education. That to me is a signal that something is special about those research environments. It either trains better researchers, has more freedom, or some factor.

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Post by quizivex » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:49 pm

That's what I was wondering about. The students and professors who go to those places were disproportionately good to begin with. So of course the biggest accomplishments in science will come out of those schools.

That doesn't guarantee the specifics of the programs at those schools was anything special, or that those people would not have accomplished as much had they gone to an inferior school/program.

It's like saying after measuring heights of NBA players, and noticing it exceeds that of the general public, that playing professional basketball makes people taller , when in fact tall people are just more likely to succeed in basketball from the beginning and get to that point.

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Post by mathlete » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:48 pm


correlation != causation

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Post by braindrain » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:45 pm

I did not say correlation = causation. It's just that some research environments enable better work to be done than others.

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Post by Daharoni » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:48 am

Lets get back to people posting what they think the physics rankings are.

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Post by soluyanov » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:47 am

I think there is a great risks of becoming a victim of these rankings. For example, everybody knows top5 universities in (physics) rankings. But.... you're not going to research the entire physics, just some particular field. Cond mat, high energy, etc... Moreover, there is sense in distinguishing different branches of these very specialities. I want to do cond mat theory, but not all of that. Just a strongly correlated electrons part (magnetism, superconductivity, plus some aspects of stat physics).

So, my choice should be based on the quality of this very field within different programs. USNews offer cond mat ranking. UIUC and Cornell are on top of it. UIUC has a very strong experiment (along with theory) and, of course, they have Legget. Cornell has only one Professor doing research in "correlated" area.

I think that the final choice should be made as follows:
1) the school must be strong in your particular field (if you have already chosen it)
2) you have to know that there are people whose supervising (in the chosen field) will contribute much to your knowledge, personality and CV
3) this school must be prestigious (this is where rankings, probably, has some effect) in order to have a better CV. Everybody knows, that your future really depends on the name of the school.

Don't fall in rankings rush - this may really hurt you. Better contact some professors in different places and ask what dept. among the ones who have offered you admission is, probably, the best choice for satisfying your interests. Look at how many people do research in the chosen field at a department. The larger is the group, the wider are their contacts and your freedom.

Daharoni, in what field would you like to work?

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Post by shirazu » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:25 am

Some of the schools offer lists of what grads each year have gone on to do on their website, which is key to me. If I see a lot of people getting big postdocs at labs I have heard of and/or working at name corporations that means a lot to me.
You can also find out about attrition if you are crafty enough. Many schools offer a list of who entered their classes each year. If you cross-reference these lists to the phone number database, you can see who is still there after 3-4 years which can tell you something about attrition rate.

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Post by braindrain » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:06 pm

@daharoni macaroni,
policing is not appreciated. Rankings by themselves don't mean anything unless people discuss the issues that go along with them.

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Objective Ranking

Post by sg83 » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:19 pm

Hey what do u think about these ratings?
Lots of surprises in there!!
These guys claim to be the only objective ranking organisation...they base their rankings completely on citations, grants received, awards received etc....and NOT on reputation.
US News on the other hand is based completely on reputation I think.

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Post by artist » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:36 pm

Some interesting Wikipedia articles on criticism of US News rankings: ... e_rankings ... y_rankings

Basically, their ranking methodology is not consistent from year to year, and lacks any sort of empirical justification. In other words, it's just their (most likely biased) opinion.

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Post by CPT » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:59 am

In spite of all te flak that the USNews rankings get, I'd say that they perfectly serve their purpose, which is to give you a rough idea of what the university rankings are. After that, I think the single most important thing is to talk to your Profs who know you well personally as well as professionally, and ask them what to do. Mainly because, other than overall prestige and quality of various programs, there is a lot of personal dynamics which can't be ignored. And in the end, the truth remains that even Harvard will have one odd screwball Prof, and you'll find some truly amazing mentors in the smallest and lowest ranked places as well, so in the end it's all a gamble, so think carefully before you decide. These rankings are a rough gauge of quality and standards.

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Post by artist » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:25 pm

That's true about Harvard:

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Post by rjharris » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:01 pm

maybe this is just school pride, but the academicanalytics rankings seem like utter crap. MIT is not in the top ten in either physics, mathematics, or astro? come on...

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Post by CPT » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:26 pm

@artist: :D ... good ol' Lubos :)

The academicanalytics ranking does look like crap ... Princeton, Harvard, MIT, UCB ... none of these on the top? Publications and citations are not such a great measure of academic output, (what with arxiv being so popular in HEP, and people fighting against Elsevier, and other overpriced journals and all) though, I always thought that even on those parameters these places were on top.

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High energy theory rankings

Post by sg83 » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:41 am

could u guys post wat according to you r the top 25 high energy theory schools ( or can post a link for these rankings).

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@ sg83

Post by theorygirl » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:07 am

I am definitely surprised MIT is not in the academic analytics rankings. I mean, Cornell is pretty much my top pick right now so that was cool, but I have to say I personally think MIT is a more highly ranked school. I was also surprised to see NYU, Duke, and Hopkins so high. NYU does not even show up in 2006 US News rankings. Hopkins is 20 and Duke is 32.

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Post by physicslover » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:37 am

I second sg83, really wanna know High Energy Theory ranking...
Last edited by physicslover on Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by shirazu » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:55 pm

US News rankings (paying for these was the biggest bunch of s*** ever I hate them).
Rank/School Average assessment
score (5.0 = highest)
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.0
Stanford University (CA) 5.0
3. California Institute of Technology 4.9
4. Harvard University (MA) 4.8
Princeton University (NJ) 4.8
University of California–Berkeley 4.8
7. Cornell University (NY) 4.7
8. University of Chicago 4.6
University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 4.6
10. University of California–Santa Barbara 4.4
11. Columbia University (NY) 4.3
University of Texas–Austin 4.3
13. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.2
Yale University (CT) 4.2
15. University of Maryland–College Park 4.1
16. University of California–Los Angeles 4.0
University of California–San Diego 4.0
University of Colorado–Boulder 4.0
University of Pennsylvania 4.0
University of Washington 4.0
University of Wisconsin–Madison 4.0
22. Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.8
SUNY–Stony Brook 3.8
24. Ohio State University 3.7
Pennsylvania State University–University Park 3.7
Rutgers State University–New Brunswick (NJ) 3.7
27. Rice University (TX) 3.6
University of Minnesota–Twin Cities 3.6
29. Brown University (RI) 3.5
Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 3.5
Duke University (NC) 3.5
Michigan State University 3.5
Northwestern University (IL) 3.5
University of California–Irvine 3.5
35. Boston University 3.4
Georgia Institute of Technology 3.4
Indiana University–Bloomington 3.4
New York University 3.4
Purdue University–West Lafayette (IN) 3.4
University of Arizona 3.4
University of California–Davis 3.4
University of Florida 3.4
University of Rochester (NY) 3.4
University of Virginia 3.4
45. Florida State University 3.3
University of California–Santa Cruz 3.3
University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill 3.3
Washington University in St. Louis 3.3
49. Texas A&M University–College Station 3.2
50. Case Western Reserve University (OH) 3.1
CUNY Graduate School and University Center 3.1
University of Notre Dame (IN) 3.1
University of Pittsburgh 3.1
University of Southern California 3.1
55. Arizona State University 3.0
Dartmouth College (NH) 3.0
Iowa State University 3.0
North Carolina State University 3.0
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) 3.0
University of Massachusetts–Amherst 3.0
University of Oregon 3.0
62. Brandeis University (MA) 2.9
College of William and Mary (VA) 2.9
University of Illinois–Chicago 2.9
University of Iowa 2.9
Vanderbilt University (TN) 2.9
61. Rockefeller University (NY) ** 2.9
67. Northeastern University (MA) 2.8
Syracuse University (NY) 2.8
University of California–Riverside 2.8
University of New Mexico 2.8
University of Tennessee–Knoxville 2.8
University of Utah 2.8
Virginia Tech 2.8
74. Boston College 2.7
Emory University (GA) 2.7
Louisiana State University–Baton Rouge 2.7
Tufts University (MA) 2.7
University of Connecticut 2.7
University of Delaware 2.7
University of Georgia 2.7
81. Colorado State University 2.6
University of Hawaii–Manoa 2.6
University of Kansas 2.6
University of Nebraska–Lincoln 2.6
85. Colorado School of Mines 2.5
Kansas State University 2.5
Ohio University 2.5
Oregon State University 2.5
University at Buffalo–SUNY 2.5
University of Houston 2.5
University of Missouri–Columbia 2.5
University of Oklahoma 2.5
University of South Carolina 2.5
Washington State University 2.5

*This ranking was computed in January of the year cited, based on data from a survey sent out in the fall of the previous year.
** The school was mistakenly left out of the 2006 survey because of an error in interpreting data from the National Science Foundation's WebCASPAR database. Data and rankings from the 2002 survey appear.

1. University of Colorado–Boulder
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3. Harvard University (MA)
4. Stanford University (CA)
5. California Institute of Technology
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
7. University of California–Berkeley
8. University of Arizona
9. Rice University (TX)
10. University of Maryland–College Park
University of Rochester (NY)
University of Texas–Austin
13. University of Washington
14. Kansas State University
Princeton University (NJ)
16. University of Virginia
Yale University (CT)

1. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
2. Cornell University (NY)
3. Harvard University (MA)
4. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
5. Stanford University (CA)
6. University of California–Santa Barbara
7. University of California–Berkeley
8. Princeton University (NJ)
9. University of Chicago
10. California Institute of Technology
11. University of California–San Diego
12. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
University of Maryland–College Park
Yale University (CT)
15. Columbia University (NY)
16. University of Pennsylvania
17. Ohio State University
18. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities
19. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
University of Texas–Austin
21. Rutgers State University–New Brunswick (NJ)
1. California Institute of Technology
2. University of Chicago
3. Princeton University (NJ)
4. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
5. Harvard University (MA)
6. University of California–Berkeley
7. Stanford University (CA)
8. University of California–Santa Barbara
9. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
10. University of Texas–Austin
11. Cornell University (NY)
12. Ohio State University
University of California–Davis
University of California–Santa Cruz
University of Maryland–College Park
"Elementary particles/fields/string theory"
1. Princeton University (NJ)
2. California Institute of Technology
Stanford University (CA)
4. Harvard University (MA)
5. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6. University of California–Berkeley
7. University of Chicago
8. University of California–Santa Barbara
9. Cornell University (NY)
10. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
11. Columbia University (NY)
12. University of Wisconsin–Madison
13. Rutgers State University–New Brunswick (NJ)
14. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
15. SUNY–Stony Brook
University of Texas–Austin
17. University of Washington

1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2. Michigan State University
University of Washington
4. SUNY–Stony Brook
5. California Institute of Technology
Yale University (CT)
7. Indiana University–Bloomington
8. Columbia University (NY)
9. University of California–Berkeley
10. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
11. Duke University (NC)
12. University of Maryland–College Park
13. Florida State University
Ohio State University
University of Notre Dame (IN)
16. Texas A&M University–College Station
17. College of William and Mary (VA)

1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Princeton University (NJ)
3. University of California–Los Angeles
4. University of Wisconsin–Madison
5. University of Maryland–College Park
6. University of California–San Diego
7. University of Texas–Austin
8. Columbia University (NY)
University of Iowa
10. University of Colorado–Boulder
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2. Harvard University (MA)
3. California Institute of Technology
4. Stanford University (CA)
5. University of California–Berkeley
6. University of California–Santa Barbara
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
8. Princeton University (NJ)
9. Yale University (CT)
10. Cornell University (NY)
University of Colorado–Boulder
University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
University of Maryland–College Park

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Post by JackSkellington » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:00 pm

wow- thanks for sharing the list

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Post by soluyanov » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:47 pm

I've also paid for it.....

All the professors I have talked to tell me this ranking is a total bullshit.

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Post by Peter » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:33 am

It seems pretty reasonable to me...

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Post by sg83 » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:51 pm

can u pple tell me how do johns hopkins, ohio state and TAMU compare with these places in high energy theory(string theory/phenomenology). I am an international student and it is difficult for me to make a decision. As I have inadequate exposure I want to keep my options open and go to a place which is decent in strings as well as other aspects of high energy theory. It would help if you can tell me about the relative strengths
of these places in different aspects of high energy theory......

pearl jam
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Post by pearl jam » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:56 pm





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Post by epsi » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:25 pm

northwestern campus is preeetty :))
indiana is pretty good for astro though

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Post by theorygirl » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:40 pm

Though I have little experience here, a guy that I met at Cornell was interested in High Energy theory and thought Hopkins was really up and coming in the field. he was considering entering Hopkins along w/ Stanford... Best of luck in making a decision. I am struggling w/ that right now! :)

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Post by vicente » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:52 pm

What happened at Penn State that made them jump from #60 in the 1995 NRC rankings to #24 in the US News rankings?

I can sort of understand Colorado's jump from 35 to 16, but Penn State?

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Post by twistor » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:46 pm

I don't know, but I'm guessing money is involved.

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Post by dlenmn » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:10 pm

@ vicente

The two rankings are based on different things. The US news simply asked profs to rate places on a scale of 1 to 5 (or don't know) -- see methodology here. I believe that the NRC rankings did something similar, but factored in other things as well (e.g. does the school provide health insurance for grad students?) In short, the two are not directly comparable (but I think the survey part of the NRC ranking is available -- that should make for a better comparison).

I think NRC has modified their methodology for their forthcoming ranking, so even that won't be directly comparable to the old one.

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